Nigel and Lizzie: Why I think they go together

[Numbuh 58 (Fredos)]

I think that Lizzie love Nigel and Nigel love Lizzie but.... Nigel and Abby Forevuh but Lizzie is second girl for Nigel in my opinion...

[GoldenFlither]

OMG! Randomness!

I don't hate 1/Lizzie, as I've mentioned so many times before. I also don't love 1/Lizzie. And I wouldn't be disappointed if Nigel and Lizzie broke up. Truthfully, I'd be happy. But only if Lizzie finds somebody to make her happy. If they're happy, then I'm happy. *wink wink nudge nudge*

[Numbuh 0xFF]

@re: Lizzie not being in the KND

Nigel's already a workaholic the last thing he needs is a girlfriend who's ALSO in the KND. Give him some breathing space, okay. This is mostly why I oppoes the mission-as-a-date scenario, especially when it involves Nigel. The equivalence holds that Nigel on a mission <=> Total monomania. Not really a great date, now is it.

@re: Lizzie being distrustful.

Well there were certain issues, but I take exception to using LEADER to back it up. First of all, regardless of what she did, it is obvious she did it thinking it would help Nigel [there may have been ulterior motives, of course]. Second, the end of the episode does not prove that she actually did anything -- it may have been a joke.

The boyfriend-helmet thing was bad, but it's long past and just illustrates how obsessed she was with him.

@re: TND and recklessness

Actually I think TND is more likely to recruit renegades if they are 100% loyal to the *idea* of KND. So I wouldn't discount the idea. Especially if the remaining three years burn away some deeper layers of siliness Nigel still has. Oh, and TND? Dumb name. Anyone have a better one?

@re: Not playing the canon card

Waitaminute. If we can't play on the card of what's TRUE (in context of the show, of course) what can we play at? What's the point of a debate if truth isn't admited? How do we then differentiate it from your common or garden-variety wank?

[GoldenFlither]

KND is about creativity. We use our imaginations. Not everything has to be canon to be right.

[Numbuh 0xFF]

Define 'right'.

You mean fun to ship? Then the answer is of course not! We don't need canon proof to ship something -- only an imagination. No qualms there. If it were otherwise we'd only have the two canon ships, now would we?

If you mean right in the context of being true within the context of the show, well, without canon you've got precious little.

1/Lizzie is part of canon. Just like, say, the existance of Sector Z (and the mystery) is canon. You may not like it, but it's there. You have to work with it. Of course, you can ignore it but then all you do becomes AU (Alternate Universe) -- which is okay, too. Plenty of good AU fic. Hell, BND is AU of a sort and yet it is a perfectly repsectable line of ficcage/fanart. You can also work around it (and indeed, any good 1/5 fic that wants out of AU has to do it) and that's fine too. What's totally uncool is dissing 1/Lizzie -- no-one should do that.

[digigirl02]

I agree with FF.

[unifilar]

Nigel's already a workaholic the last thing he needs is a girlfriend who's ALSO in the KND. Give him some breathing space, okay. This is mostly why I oppoes the mission-as-a-date scenario, especially when it involves Nigel. The equivalence holds that Nigel on a mission <=> Total monomania. Not really a great date, now is it.

I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree. I think dating something within the work would help his workaholic attitude because they're familiar with said work- they understand Nigel's plight. They understand what must be done, and when Nigel could be going overboard. Lizzie can't really relate to KND because she doesn't understand what it's about, as evident by her nigh horrid attempt at leadership in LEADER. If she doesn't understand what Nigel goes through everyday, how can she truly break his 'workaholic' attitude?

And Nigel doesn't just think about himself on a mission, anyway. He has to think about his whole team, the whole organization.

Second, the end of the episode does not prove that she actually did anything -- it may have been a joke.

A...joke? To who? To the poor boy she had been flirting with earlier? How could it possibly be humorous to him, he didn't know Lizzie had done anything wrong. Besides, I don't really find breaking a promise all that funny, and if Lizzie does, then that's one twisted sense of humor that could be even more worrysome than the distrust.

First of all, regardless of what she did, it is obvious she did it thinking it would help Nigel [there may have been ulterior motives, of course].

I still think that whatever she does 'for Nigel', she's really doing it so she can have Nigel to herself. I don't think any episode has proven that she's so selfless that she 'played leader' just to take the load off Nigel.

Waitaminute. If we can't play on the card of what's TRUE (in context of the show, of course) what can we play at? What's the point of a debate if truth isn't admited? How do we then differentiate it from your common or garden-variety wank?

What is the point of debate if you merely say, "Well, my ship is canon. So I win."? That's no debate at all. I merely think that you shouldn't think a ship should be supported merely because it's canon. You should have more reason to your madness than that.

I'm very aware that 1/Lizzie is canon, which is why I nearly always mention it in 1/5 fanfics that I do (the ones that are focused on romance, of course).

What's totally uncool is dissing 1/Lizzie -- no-one should do that.

I don't mean to 'diss' anything, and I'm sorry if I sounded like I was. I merely disagree with it.

[Numbuh 0xFF]

Look, the problem with this is that if we aren't arguing over canon[1], well, what are we arguing about? Thing is, no-one ever bothers defining the parameters of the debate -- and that is becoming an obstacle.

@re: dissing

Wasn't speaking to you. Or anyone in particular. AFAIK you never dissed 1/Lizzie.

@re: your other points

They are valid. But without knowing what is it you are trying to show/prove I can't answer them.


[1] For instance, you are familliar with the great H/Hr Vs. H/R war of HP fandom. Well, there both sides had plenty of ammunition and a debate could be formed. But, truth be told, we have so very very little -- almost no proof no and precious little in the futrure.

[digigirl02]

True. I may not like and agree with canon, but I respect it.

[unifilar]

Look, the problem with this is that if we aren't arguing over canon[1], well, what are we arguing about? Thing is, no-one ever bothers defining the parameters of the debate -- and that is becoming an obstacle.

I like to think that such debates over ships include more factors than just canon-ness, and such factors change constantly, so it can be a bit confusing- for example, other factors could include which ship generally makes more sense, which one is more likable by the audience, or just why this couple should be 'shipped.

They are valid. But without knowing what is it you are trying to show/prove I can't answer them.

I'm trying to justify my disagreement of 1/Lizzie. Many people think it's just because I'm a 1/5 shipper.

[GoldenFlither]

When we debate, just be nice about it, all right? Then it won't end in anger. I'm absolutely sick of anger right about now.

[limey]

Uhh... what anger?

[eveluvswally]

limey said:

Uhh... what anger?

Maybe they see something as anger that others see as...not anger?