Homosexuality.

[Girl next door]

scone said:

also, girl next door? if you're going to object to people slashing "innocent little cartoons", you must have an equal objection to people shipping same characters in hetrosexual relationships. because liking the same sex is no more inherently "adult" than liking the opposite sex is.

and stuffs. remember, boys and girls, sexual preference isn't set at straight by default! kids don't grow up straight, only to become gay at a certain predetermined age! children do in fact get crushes on other children of the same sex, in the same way most do on the opposite!


...right. *climbs off soapbox*

Kids have crushes on the opposite sex at a very young age, like kindergarten, just think about the kids around you, n u know slash is insane, or else u wouldn't put that evil smilie in ur sig right? I know, ur an adult so u can think about that kinda thing but the cartoon characters are not adults. And what's the point of makin' them homo anyway?

makuta said:

I voted no. If you're gay and just can't help it, that's alright. You can like people of the same gender, just don't go out with them or whatever. Some things are impossible to fix, so you might as well just fight it. However, doing gay things is wrong. (it's also against my religion) In our twisted society, killing children at a very young age is legal, bad media is popular, and crime is becoming a sport. We're being brainwashed into thinking things are normal and okay, when they're actually very wrong. Men and women were made for each other. A man and a man can be close friends, like brothers even, but they're not supposed to get married. We've fought for women's rights and racial rights, and those were the right things to fight for. They're things you ARE. Gay rights have to do with WHAT YOU DO. See the difference? You can't control WHAT YOU ARE, but you can control WHAT YOU DO. Doing gay things isn't natural. You don't see female/female or male/male couples in animals (except in some really wierd species. ^_^' Like a type of lizard I saw on Animal Planet) They weren't Adam and Steve or Madame and Eve (I got the name thing from another site), they were Adam and Eve. They were made for each other. When I see those slash pictures, I get really sick because it reminds me of the messed up world I live in.

Later daze!

Great Speech! *LOUD APPLAUSE*
I've got nothin' to say.

[Shwoo]

Kids get crushes in kindergarten because they think that's what people are supposed to be doing.

And Makuta? One of the things that's twisted about society is that "doing gay things" is seen as wrong. I heard that in ancient Greece, homosexuality was considered normal, even desirable.

[scone]

Makuta looses the intarweb 'cause she assumes everyone should follow the standards set by her religion. NEWS FLASH: not everyone is religious, and thus not everyone buys into the lies that the "moral majority" likes to promote under the guise of Christianity. W00T I WIN AGAIN.


...and Girl Next Door, have you ever talked to a gay person? Many of them admit to getting crushes on the opposite sex when yes, they were little kids, i.e. in kindergarden ETC.

and Clanker's right, a lot of the behavior of children is based more on what they THINK they SHOULD be doing than what they actually want to do.

[Girl next door]

Kids don't know what they SHOULD do at such a young age, they tend to do what they WANT to . Take my friends and me for example, we had crushes on the opposite sex becuz we just did, not becuz we SHOULD.
Clanker, that example of yours, does not apply to little kids.
scone, Makuta didn't say everyone should follow the standards set by her religion. She said it was wrong itself, and it was only ALSO wrong according to her religion, get it?

[makuta]

Thanks for clearing that up, Girl Next Door. Yup, I aimed that speech at EVERYONE. Not just religous people.

clanker said:

Kids get crushes in kindergarten because they think that's what people are supposed to be doing.

And Makuta? One of the things that's twisted about society is that "doing gay things" is seen as wrong. I heard that in ancient Greece, homosexuality was considered normal, even desirable.

Just because they did it then didn't mean it was right!

[aracthedragon]

Well, see, I grew up in San Francisco. I'm actually still living in San Francisco. Uh, I don't know if you all know this, but San Francisco is very, you know, pro-gay rights. Some of you might have heard that last year, our new mayor made gay marriage legal in this city. (Go Mayor Newsom!) So, I'm very much in favor of gays and gay rights. I actually have a number of gay female friends, most of whom are very intelligent and friendly. And to answer your question: no, they haven't hit on me, tried to kiss me, or made me have sex with them. And none of my gay guy friends have been hitting on my straight guy friends. Just so we're clear on that. Because I have been asked those questions before. By complete and utter jerks. Who can go die. *cough*

Anyway, there's a lot of stuff that was said on this thread that offended me, and there was a lot of stuff said on this thread that didn't. So before I start...debating...I suppose, I just want to make it clear that I'm just stating my opinion. And that is all that it is. An opinion. It's not fact. So try not to get all...WAH! with me. And if I offend you, I apologize. I'm really not trying to piss anyone off. I just want to say some stuff, that's all.

makuta said:

I voted no. If you're gay and just can't help it, that's alright. You can like people of the same gender, just don't go out with them or whatever. Some things are impossible to fix, so you might as well just fight it.

Well...if some things are impossible to fix...wouldn't it make more sense to learn to accept it? It would make life a lot easier for you and help you become a better person.

makuta said:

We've fought for women's rights and racial rights, and those were the right things to fight for. They're things you ARE. Gay rights have to do with WHAT YOU DO. See the difference?

...No.

You can't control WHAT YOU ARE, but you can control WHAT YOU DO.

Yeah, but being gay is an..."are!" That doesn't make any sense. OK, a person is gay, a person doesn't do gay. They've done studies and they're relatively sure that being gay is a genetic thing, not a conscious choice. I mean, I didn't wake up one day and decide to like boys. I woke up one day and got this warm feeling in my chest when I thought about that cute guy who sits next to me in my chem class, then got really confused, thought about it, and realized, "Oh my gosh, I have a crush on a guy!"

I mean, seriously, how many of you chose your sexuality? Because I sure didn't. Sometimes I actually wish I could, because I don't like dealing with guys sometimes. I get along great with some of my female friends and think, "If I were gay, I'd love to have a relationship with her. She's funny, smart, and she's not bad looking." Which makes me think I might be bisexual, but that's something else.

Doing gay things isn't natural. You don't see female/female or male/male couples in animals (except in some really wierd species. ^_^' Like a type of lizard I saw on Animal Planet)

Actually, scientists found a herd of male sheep who were engaging in homosexual activities with each other. No, I'm not kidding. And I think I heard that there are homosexual dolphins, too.

They weren't Adam and Steve or Madame and Eve (I got the name thing from another site), they were Adam and Eve. They were made for each other. When I see those slash pictures, I get really sick because it reminds me of the messed up world I live in.

Look, I'm not into slash either, including KND slash. But when I see it, I don't get too offended by it. People are going to like what they like. And I don't fully understand how gay people are messing up our world. Being gay means that you fall in love with someone of the same sex. Keyword there, in my opinion, is love. We have way, way too much hate in this world, and the more love we allow to be spread around, the better. That's what I think anyway.

And just out of mild curiosity, how many people here actually know someone personally who is gay or bisexual?

[makuta]

aracthedragon said:

Well, see, I grew up in San Francisco. I'm actually still living in San Francisco. Uh, I don't know if you all know this, but San Francisco is very, you know, pro-gay rights. Some of you might have heard that last year, our new mayor made gay marriage legal in this city. (Go Mayor Newsom!) So, I'm very much in favor of gays and gay rights. I actually have a number of gay female friends, most of whom are very intelligent and friendly. And to answer your question: no, they haven't hit on me, tried to kiss me, or made me have sex with them. And none of my gay guy friends have been hitting on my straight guy friends. Just so we're clear on that. Because I have been asked those questions before. By complete and utter jerks. Who can go die. *cough*

Anyway, there's a lot of stuff that was said on this thread that offended me, and there was a lot of stuff said on this thread that didn't. So before I start...debating...I suppose, I just want to make it clear that I'm just stating my opinion. And that is all that it is. An opinion. It's not fact. So try not to get all...WAH! with me. And if I offend you, I apologize. I'm really not trying to piss anyone off. I just want to say some stuff, that's all.

makuta said:

I voted no. If you're gay and just can't help it, that's alright. You can like people of the same gender, just don't go out with them or whatever. Some things are impossible to fix, so you might as well just fight it.

Well...if some things are impossible to fix...wouldn't it make more sense to learn to accept it? It would make life a lot easier for you and help you become a better person.



...No.



Yeah, but being gay is an..."are!" That doesn't make any sense. OK, a person is gay, a person doesn't do gay. They've done studies and they're relatively sure that being gay is a genetic thing, not a conscious choice. I mean, I didn't wake up one day and decide to like boys. I woke up one day and got this warm feeling in my chest when I thought about that cute guy who sits next to me in my chem class, then got really confused, thought about it, and realized, "Oh my gosh, I have a crush on a guy!"

I mean, seriously, how many of you chose your sexuality? Because I sure didn't. Sometimes I actually wish I could, because I don't like dealing with guys sometimes. I get along great with some of my female friends and think, "If I were gay, I'd love to have a relationship with her. She's funny, smart, and she's not bad looking." Which makes me think I might be bisexual, but that's something else.



Actually, scientists found a herd of male sheep who were engaging in homosexual activities with each other. No, I'm not kidding. And I think I heard that there are homosexual dolphins, too.

They weren't Adam and Steve or Madame and Eve (I got the name thing from another site), they were Adam and Eve. They were made for each other. When I see those slash pictures, I get really sick because it reminds me of the messed up world I live in.

Look, I'm not into slash either, including KND slash. But when I see it, I don't get too offended by it. People are going to like what they like. And I don't fully understand how gay people are messing up our world. Being gay means that you fall in love with someone of the same sex. Keyword there, in my opinion, is love. We have way, way too much hate in this world, and the more love we allow to be spread around, the better. That's what I think anyway.

And just out of mild curiosity, how many people here actually know someone personally who is gay or bisexual?

Better person? No! People with disabilities should try to fight their problems and try their best to be normal. Gay is a disability. (Not a talent! ^_^') We aren't dolphins or sheep like you mentioned in your post, we're humans. We, being the smartest species on Earth, should know better. I don't hate gay people. In fact, I have alot of "messed up" friends. (I didn't mean messed up in a mean way!) None of them are gay, though, as far as I know. One of them has cerebral palsy, so her brain and legs are weak. In gym, if she's around, I stay with her instead of playing sports and play games she can do with her hands, like hot potato. In one of our classes, I sit right next to her and help her understand her work. Two of my friends are poor (I know this for a fact because I spent a night at one of their houses! @_@ ewww..) and don't have many friends because they don't dress "cool" enough. We brighten up each other's days with our friendship and get together at school whenever we have the chance. Another one of my friends is from the Bronx and unfortunatly, some of the violence rubbed off on her. I try to keep her out of trouble. I just wanna help people who need help, and that's how I see gays.

Even if gays were ares, you know that phsycos are are's, too! *drools and smashes bricks at picture of random person* Tehehehe!

[Girl next door]

What are physcos?
Gays are not 'are's, ur not fixed to be a gay when u were born. And even people think homosexuality is OK, that's for older people who have in fact, less innocent minds, so please don't apply this to cartoon characters especially KND, who are 100% kids and 100% against adults and teenagers, n u can go back to the first page n check out kylohk's post which I quoted again.

[regan]

makuta said:

Gay is a disability. (Not a talent! ^_^')

I hereby award you the prize for writing the most tasteless, tactless, and degrading sentance in this entire thread. By its nature, a disability is a condition which hinders a person's ability to function normally. Last time I checked, the ONLY reason gays or lesbians have any difficulty whatsoever with integrating into society is because homophobic or biased people refuse to LET them do so. If you are gay, you could be denied the benefits that come with civil unions. If you are gay, you could find yourself being verbally or physically abused. With such unyielding and harmful opinions flying around, how could anyone - no matter how intelligent, tallented, or kind they are - expect to be treated with the same level of respect as the next average Joe who just so happens to sleep with the "right" gender? It is not being gay that causes problems... it's the fault of the people who deem this "problem" grounds to take away another person's rights.


I am bisexual. I am also an artist, an actress, a singer, a programmer, a fencer, and a student at a prestigious university. But according to you, I am not a normal person; I have a disability. Now, there are things in my life that I regret, but my sexual orientation is not one of them. Might I ask you to point out just HOW my being attracted to girls has lessened the quality of my lifestyle?

~Regan

[aracthedragon]

makuta said:

Gay is a disability. (Not a talent! ^_^')

...

*twitch*

*walks away, muttering* Just walk away, Arac, just walk away. Keep your calm, don't fly off the handle, don't say something you might regret...deep breath in...and out...

OK. I'm OK. Um...yeah, I don't agree with you there. And I never said being gay was a talent. It's just...is. That's what someone is. They're gay. Period.

Better person? No! People with disabilities should try to fight their problems and try their best to be normal.

Well, see, I don't see that as fighting their problem, I see that as accepting. They've come to accept that they've, you know, lost their leg, for example, and try to lead normal lives. Which makes them a better person. Which was what I was trying to say earlier.

We aren't dolphins or sheep like you mentioned in your post, we're humans. We, being the smartest species on Earth, should know better.

Well, then, your comment about how there aren't any animals who are homosexual has no validity to it, either.

And I also disagree with you about humans being the smartest species on Earth, but that's another discussion.

Two of my friends are poor (I know this for a fact because I spent a night at one of their houses! @_@ ewww..)

Mm. Hit a bit of a nerve there because my family is somewhat poor, but whatever...

and don't have many friends because they don't dress "cool" enough.

Wait, what? Are you saying that you don't have many friends because everyone around you doesn't dress cool enough to be your friend?

I just wanna help people who need help, and that's how I see gays.

Well, they don't need help. Not in that sense, anyway. They're fine, and they're normal. If you want to help them, then respect and accept them.

girlnextdoor said:

What are physcos?

I think what Makuta was trying to say was "psychos." As in, you know, crazy people.

Gays are not 'are's, ur not fixed to be a gay when u were born.

Then when do you become gay?


And Regan? You are my new hero, and I want to marry you. ;D

[diala]

...wow. I turn my back a few days, and guess what little thread of mine exploded in the mass of fun and bias?

Makuta, thank you for stepping in for being the thick-headed, blind religious type that I was hoping to drag from the mass. Girl next door is kind of getting there, but you just pull through on all levels of stupid!

First of all, to "Girl next door": You say that homosexuality is for "adults," while your signature has a long list of heterosexual couples. May I ask, what is the difference between homosexuality and heterosexuality beside the fact that two people are in love? You say homosexuality is "gross," but why is it? You keep on saying that it is disgusting, but you never explain why... so one could assume that you merely do not like people who are different from your tastes. Wow! There goes your argument down the toilet of intolerance.

Makuta, I have no idea how to start with you. I have... no idea. Apparently, you poor soul, you lack the ability to think for yourself. Why? Because you're just swallowing that religious propaganda without so much as thinking about it! Let's view your lovely posts and see where your lack of intelligence shines, shall we?

Better person? No! People with disabilities should try to fight their problems and try their best to be normal. Gay is a disability.

...gay is a disability? Gay is a DISABILITY? *laughs out loud joyously*

Did you even THINK ABOUT THAT COMMENT? Being gay, as in being in love with the same sex, does not harm you physically and mentally (at least, no more than being straight can). It doesn't disable any abilities, it does not hinder anything. The only thing it does is make you love the same gender. THAT. IS. ALL. Anything else is just stereotypes, good or bad. In fact, as a bisexual individual, I take offense to your comment. I am just as healthy and well as you are, perhaps even more, because I came to these conclusions WITHOUT swallowing some church's bullshit.

Doing gay things isn't natural.

As quoted from here: "Homosexuality is not natural, much like eyeglasses, polyester, and birth control are not natural." Let's get rid of those things! They're not natural! You can't find them in nature!

They weren't Adam and Steve or Madame and Eve (I got the name thing from another site), they were Adam and Eve.

Aww, look! She's forcing her religious views on us! Isn't that ADORABLE?

Take a gander at this. (Check "Appendix B" if you're impatient) This is another point of view on homosexuality in the bible, and this actually argues FOR it! Oh, my! You see, the Bible is really up to interpretation. After all, it has been translated and reintepreted again and again. No one really knows what the Bible says is what the authors originally intended. That is why there are so many different points of view in Christianity, yet they are all equally Christians.

[Girl next door]

*To AracTheDragon*U become gay when u grow older(some people I mean).
For the woman rights and things like that Makuta mentioned, u fight for it cuz u were born to be human so u struggle to be equal to men. For gay, u were not born to be gay n if u have a crush on the opposite sex, u don't struggle to be homo

And, ur not poor, in the other thread I read u have so many clothes n that. And Makuta didn't say she doesn't have many friends because everyone around her don't dress cool enough to be her friend, she said some of her friends don't have many pals cuz the people around them think they do not dress cool enough.

*To Diala* I had explained what Makuta said already, let me quote it again.

girlnextdoor said:

Makuta didn't say everyone should follow the standards set by her religion. She said it was wrong itself, and it was only ALSO wrong according to her religion, get it?

I haven't even finished ur thread, just desperate to clear up for Makuta, I'll go on later.

[scone]

makuta said:

Gay is a disability.

I would say being a dumb ignorant c**t is a much bigger disability.

makuta said:

People with disabilities should try to fight their problems and try their best to be normal.

Right, so maybe you should try that, then. Fighting your disability and all.

[diala]

girlnextdoor said:

For gay, u were not born to be gay n if u have a crush on the opposite sex, u don't struggle to be homo

First of all, learn how to spell "you." This is not a chatroom. You are in no race to post.

Second, I can just as much argue that you are not born straight. However, when do people develop these feelings for others? When they're young. Hell, even if they DID become gay later in life, does it matter? People have the right to be whatever they wish, just as long as it isn't harmful, and homosexuality is far from harmful.

Then again, no amount of posts can convince you. Why? Because you don't know what it is like, hence you assume everyone is just. like. you. Sad. Very sad.

And yes, homosexuals do struggle. They struggle because of people like YOU, who think that they can just "get over" being gay, and hence refuse to give them and their loving partners rights that all humans, homosexual or heterosexual, deserve. Even if gay isn't "natural," don't you think that people in a loving, caring relationship should have equal oppotunities as others?

Then again, like I said, no amount of talk here can convince you, because you are stuck in a "everyone is the same" mindset. Have you even been FRIENDS with a homosexual? Have you felt their pain? Otherwise, you cannot compare.

[aracthedragon]

girlnextdoor said:

*To AracTheDragon*U become gay when u grow older(some people I mean).
For the woman rights and things like that Makuta mentioned, u fight for it cuz u were born to be human so u struggle to be equal to men. For gay, u were not born to be gay n if u have a crush on the opposite sex, u don't struggle to be homo

I don't understand what you're trying to say.

And, ur not poor, in the other thread I read u have so many clothes n that.

Well, yeah, I have a lot clothes, but most, if not all of them come from second hand stores, where I can get a t-shirt for, like, two bucks. I spend hours in those stores trying to find cool clothes. But my family doesn't have anywhere near the amount of money we need to send me to college, and we didn't have enough money to get a good house in a nice neighborhood. I live a few blocks away from the projects, in this tiny, dusty, run down house, where the paint is peeling, there's mold growing on the windows, and we don't have enough money to fix any of that. I'm not dirt poor, but I don't live as nicely as most of my middle class friends do.

And Makuta didn't say she doesn't have many friends because everyone around her don't dress cool enough to be her friend, she said some of her friends don't have many pals cuz the people around them think they do not dress cool enough.

Oh. OK, that makes sense. I apologize if I offended Makuta with that remark.