1/5 vs. 1/Lizzie

[NumbuhInfinity]

I should have locked this thread when I saw the topic title, and I wanna slap myself for contributing. I was hoping things would go all right, but now I think everyone is mad at each other again. What should I do?

[eveluvswally]

There isn't anything wrong with a little debate. No one is insulting each other, everyone is being civil. It's just healthy disagreement. It's not fighting.

[scone]

numbuhinfinity said:

I should have locked this thread when I saw the topic title, and I wanna slap myself for contributing. I was hoping things would go all right, but now I think everyone is mad at each other again. What should I do?

It's just debate - which I think the title of the thread makes pretty clear. nobody's called each other names or anything yet, and I think this is fostering good discussion.

[regan]

...I don't want to sound rude, but I've been wondering this for a while. Is there some sort of new "no arguing/debating" rule on the forums? I've been noticing mods going through threads threatening to lock them because there's a debate going on, even if it's - while heated perhaps - by no means nasty or personal (Even though some threads that are full of debate are allowed to continue without threat. ) Perhaps I'm just not understanding the rules for locking a debate thread... could you clear this up?

~Regan

[Violette]

Ah, no offense meant by that. I was attempting to respond, but, after posting, I realized that I didn't quite understand your point. The fault is partially mine. I certainly wasn't getting after your language skills. I just decided that my post didn't properly respond to yours.

no ofence taken I know it more than all what I can do, and what I can't do, speak English is one of the I things I can't do properly lol

Okay, I, too, am washing my hands of this. This is a big fat steaming pile of hipocrisy on several levels. (And, on a related issue: why do 1/5 shippers, who go so hard on Lizzie for "being mean" to Nigel...ship 2/86?) I don't have the patience to read this anymore. As far as I'm concerned, you're missing our point, as brilliantly written out by Regan. Deliberately or otherwise.
1/Lizze foreverz, and see you on another thread. XP

XD aww, c'mon nella, this is interesting XD

[KCG, M.D.]

I also have a question. Alot of the 1/Lizzies are saying to look to RECESS... what is it about?

And 1/Lizzie. they're canon, they're cute, they're in love. nuff said.

[NumbuhInfinity]

I guess it's one of those knee-jerk reaction things. I see, "Hey, things are getting heated, this not good!" and think it might get locked. I guess other debate threads remain open because threads about shipping tend to get really, REALLY nasty. Take Harry Potter shipping, for example -- that fandom's ship wars became pretty darn ugly after Half-Blood Prince.

[Nella (Numbuh 310)]

abskiem said:

XD aww, c'mon nella, this is interesting XD

Hardly. This isn't an interesting debate. It's simply canon vs your otp. The show vs your opinion. There's really not much to debate, canonically.

Also, don't bring in 2/5 unnecessarily. This is a thread about 1/Lizzie and 1/5. Please stick to that.

numbuhinfinity said:

I guess it's one of those knee-jerk reaction things. I see, "Hey, things are getting heated, this not good!" and think it might get locked. I guess other debate threads remain open because threads about shipping tend to get really, REALLY nasty. Take Harry Potter shipping, for example -- that fandom's ship wars became pretty darn ugly after Half-Blood Prince.

Please have more faith in us. I'm sure that nobody wants to get into such a ridonkulous wank here. The thread's fine now. If someone crosses that line, by all means, lock it.

[eveluvswally]

numbuhinfinity said:

I guess it's one of those knee-jerk reaction things. I see, "Hey, things are getting heated, this not good!" and think it might get locked. I guess other debate threads remain open because threads about shipping tend to get really, REALLY nasty. Take Harry Potter shipping, for example -- that fandom's ship wars became pretty darn ugly after Half-Blood Prince.

But this hasn't gotten nasty. At least wait untill it violates some rule before locking it.

[NumbuhInfinity]

eveluvswally said:

numbuhinfinity said:

I guess it's one of those knee-jerk reaction things. I see, "Hey, things are getting heated, this not good!" and think it might get locked. I guess other debate threads remain open because threads about shipping tend to get really, REALLY nasty. Take Harry Potter shipping, for example -- that fandom's ship wars became pretty darn ugly after Half-Blood Prince.

But this hasn't gotten nasty. At least wait untill it violates some rule before locking it.

Oh, I know. The KND fandom is far from how HP, or most other fandoms, is. I was just making a comment of how bad shipping stuff CAN get.

And I won't lock it, but it looks like the 1/5 shippers got scared away (they're not posting anymore).

EDIT: You know what's strange? It used to be that 1/Lizzie was universally bashed by the entire fandom, back in the day. 1/5 was actually THE popular one, and there were only a few 2/5 fans.

Nowadays, 1/Lizzie has significantly grown in popularity, 2/5 has become as popular as 1/5, if not moreso, and 3/4 isn't as universally disliked as it was before. I don't know if it's because of the entering or leaving of members or what, but it's funny how time changes things, huh?

[chaz]

i think 1/5 make a better couple than 1/lizzie

[GoldenFlither]

regan said:

Soooo I notice that the 1/5 shippers' prime arguement for 1/5 (as well as against 1/Lizzie apparently) is trust.

*laughs* Trueness. But I believe that, though, 100%. Would you date somebody you can't have too much faith in?[/quote]

Trust arguement.... out the window IMO >XP

For you, maybe. For me, trust beats all.

After all, while Nigel admittedly does have reasons why he shouldn't completely trust Lizzie, he also has reasons as to why he can't completely trust Abby. After all, she abandoned him to the DCFDTL when he lost his hair...

Ah, an excellent point. However you have to admit, Abby does seem to feel very guilty about that. And maybe there's more to that story with the Delightful Children. It may have been a complete accident.

Besides, as I said, Abby feels very guilty about that one time. However, you have to admit, Lizzie did abandon him once. Operation: CAKED-TWO? And its not just about the "abandoning" part than more of the "betraying" or "lying/breaking a promise" part. Would you like me to list the episodes where Lizzie does these things?

Yes, Lizzie does apologize for these things. But the thing is its happening more than once. As Unifilar's prime target is *wink wink nudge nudge to uni* Operation: LEADER has one of the main examples.

where Lizzie - in all five seasons - has never abandoned him once.

*points up to earlier paragraphs*

[regan]

goldenflither said:

regan said:

Trust arguement.... out the window IMO >XP

For you, maybe. For me, trust beats all.

Ummm.... you sort of missed my entire arguement as to why the 1/5 trust arguement doesn't logically work (as oposed to it just being a personal opinion). ^^; If you need more help understanding it, there's a follow-up post to Unifilar's opinion a few posts down (I know, I know.... math terms are scary >XP).

~Regan

[GoldenFlither]

Hey, its just my theory in reality.

But, to get back into it, I think it does work well. I explained as much as could just earlier, but I'll go a little more. Because my mind is filled with ideas. *wink wink nudge nudge*

If you were ever in a relationship, your always getting suspicious about your boyfriend with other girls, what would that show? A lack of trust for your boyfriend. Right? Another thing. Just say that you told your boyfriend (or in the KND case, boyfriend told his girlfriend) not to do something again. But then they do it again. What would that show? Need I respond?

Now when I think about 1/5, I can see over all that. Numbuh 5 not only trusts Numbuh 1, she really respects him. And thats pretty obvious, considering that she's always doing whatever she can to protect him and have concern for him, as shown in more than half of the episodes, you have to admit. And Numbuh 1 respects Numbuh 5 maybe not as much, but no doubt he does. And aside from the hair incident, which we don't know much about yet, Numbuh 5 has never betrayed Numbuh 1.

And you know its not always about the trust. What about the balance of similarities and differences? That's pretty important too. They can be to the same, nor too different.

Man, its so hard to debate for a non-canon couple over a canon couple. ;D I'm out of breath,

[regan]

Um. Let me try again...

I'm not saying that your 1/5 trust idea is not founded (sure, I can see that 1 and 5 really trust each other!), but I'm saying that the same arguement logically can not be applied to 1/Lizzie as well in order to show that they don't have a viable relationship.

You say: "If Lizzie and Nigel don't have trust, their relationship can not be viable."

Which is logically equivelant to: "If Nigel and Lizzie have a viable relationship, then they do have trust."


But the fact of the matter comes down to:
Nigel and Lizzie are in a long-term, invested relationship in which they obviously like each other: Fact!
Nigel and Lizzie do not have trust: Theory!

Here, because the first statement is true, then the following contrapositive (which I'm not explaining again, but you can go here to read about) is considered true: "Nigel and Lizzie have a viable relationship (FOR THE MOMENT >XP), thus they do have trust." That statement is derrived directly from you guys' 1/5 arguement. Which is why it's extremely silly in my opinion that you keep trying to apply it to 1/Lizzie when it fundimentally proves that they do have trust.

I... sorta don't know how else to explain it. Other than asking you to go re-read my posts I suppose. ^^;

~Regan