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Post by unifilar on Sept 2, 2006 3:50:03 GMT
Whoa, there. That's not true. Relationship = trust? Nu uh, I don't buy that. Being in a relationship doesn't mean you automatically trust the other person. Because that's obviously not the case in 1/Lizzie. Lizzie doesn't trust Nigel not to cheat on her, that information is canon (see HOLIDAY). Nigel shouldn't be able to trust Lizzie because she lied to his face (see LEADER)- note that I put 'shouldn't be able to'. Nigel DID trust that Lizzie was telling the truth- but she wasn't, so that trust went to waste. There's a lot of unfounded/unreturned trust in 1/Lizze. I think this trust unbalance would, inevitably, be a cause of them breaking up.
You can't just say, "They have a relationship, so they MUST have trust.", because it's basically canon that there IS a lot of missing trust in 1/Lizzie.
The DCFDTL thing happened a while ago, and is in the past. Nigel apparently is big enough to move past it and trust Abby again- because he does. Besides, we're not postive of the whole DCFDTL-shave-Nigel-whatever story anyway.
Well, they like it each other and that makes it canon, not the other way around. Yes, 1/Lizzie has lasted a long time, but I feel some of the conflicts have diminished 1/Lizzie, instead of giving it growth. While we've seem some progress in some areas (Lizzie knows that using the boyfriend helmet is wrong), we've seen no changes or even a declination in others (Lizzie still doesn't like sharing Nigel with the KND, she's gotten even more paranoid about the chance Nigel might cheat on her).
1/Lizzie could be handled much, much better. In HOLIDAY, Nigel could've quelled Lizzie's fears by reassuring her he would never cheat on her. They could resolve the tension between Lizzie and Nigel's friends (I'm hoping this will happen in GIRLFRIEND, but there's not much evidence to support that such a resolution WILL happen, so, at this point, I'm inferring that it won't). I just can't relate to it the way it is now.
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Post by Violette on Sept 2, 2006 3:57:56 GMT
some offtopic:
do you see what are we doing here? fighthing for a cartoon...for -a-car-toon wow...this is klike the third world war
however, I saw your post before you deleted it Nella, yes, I hate my english level, the last year, I got interested for the English, and thanks to this forum, I have the level I have now, that means, nothing XD
and well, I've seen more fanart, fanficts and stuff about 2/5, not 1/5
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Post by digigirl02 on Sept 2, 2006 4:00:57 GMT
Oh, its okay, english is not everyone's here native langauge.
@lizzie being Nigel's girlfriend not Hoagie's-I think that Mr. W wanted to extended Nigel's character by giving him Lizzie for a girlfriend instead of having her Hoagie's girlfriend.
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Post by regan on Sept 2, 2006 4:04:47 GMT
The DCFDTL thing happened a while ago, and is in the past. Nigel apparently is big enough to move past it and trust Abby again- because he does. Honestly I don't know what that really proves... You could say the exact same thing about Lizzie. Boyfriend helmet and the like happened many seasons ago... and he obviously likes/trusts her enough to move past it and still go out with her. Whoa, there. That's not true. Relationship = trust? Nu uh, I don't buy that. Being in a relationship doesn't mean you automatically trust the other person. Because that's obviously not the case in 1/Lizzie. Lizzie doesn't trust Nigel not to cheat on her, that information is canon (see HOLIDAY). Nigel shouldn't be able to trust Lizzie because she lied to his face (see LEADER)- note that I put 'shouldn't be able to'. Nigel DID trust that Lizzie was telling the truth- but she wasn't, so that trust went to waste. There's a lot of unfounded/unreturned trust in 1/Lizze. I think this trust unbalance would, inevitably, be a cause of them breaking up. You can't just say, "They have a relationship, so they MUST have trust.", because it's basically canon that there IS a lot of missing trust in 1/Lizzie. I do not necessarily support the "if they're in a relationship they MUST have trust arguement" myself. XP I'm merely pointing out that - according to 1/5 fans' logic - you guys prove it yourselves. ^^ For instance, you say (quoth goldenflither and a million other 1/5 posts): "If Nigel and Lizzie do not have trust, their relationship is not viable." In logic or mathmatics, there is a type of statement called a contrapositive. It is essentually a different but equivelant logical way of writing a statement. In other words: p->q and -q -> -p are logically equivelant (p implies q is the same thing as negative q implies negative p) An example would be: Whenever it rains, I get wet. This statement is logically the same as its contrapositive: Whenever I don't get wet, it isn't raining. Thus: p = have a relationship q = have trust -q = do not have trust -p = do not have a relationship Theoretical statement (and I say "theoretical" because it is honestly a theory... we can assume all we want, but nowhere in the show has Nigel flat up said "I don't trust you" or verbally or physically implied that): "If Nigel and Lizzie do not have trust, then their relationship is not viable." ((-q -> -p)) That is logically equivalent to its contrapositive statement: "If Nigel and Lizzie are in a relationship, then they do have trust." Which means that the above is true if it is a fact that they are in a viable relationship right now (which I think we can all agree is a canon fact, remembering that I'm not saying that they're going to last forever or anything remotely like that... they're just long-term dating ~now~): "Nigel and Lizzie have a viable relationship. Thus they have trust" ((p -> q)) No matter how true that may or may not be, in short, the 1/5 supporters' "trust arguement" can never be used to show that Nigel and Lizzie are not a viable couple because of their lack of trust, because it is inherrently flawed. ~Regan |
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Post by abby5 on Sept 2, 2006 4:06:23 GMT
I am of the side of 1/5 because together they are seen very well, between 2/5 there can be nothing more that friendship sorry but it is the true....
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Post by digigirl02 on Sept 2, 2006 4:08:09 GMT
Really, I feel the same way about 1/5.
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Post by cRaZyAsiAnGirL on Sept 2, 2006 4:10:46 GMT
and well, I've seen more fanart, fanficts and stuff about 2/5, not 1/5 I just took a quick search of fics starring Nigel/Abby and Hoagie/Abby on fanfiction.net. Nigel/Abby fics ended up with 67 results, and Hoagie/Abby fics ended up with 26 results. 67<26? I don't think so... |
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Post by Violette on Sept 2, 2006 4:15:12 GMT
Oh, its okay, english is not everyone's here native langauge. @lizzie being Nigel's girlfriend not Hoagie's-I think that Mr. W wanted to extended Nigel's character by giving him Lizzie for a girlfriend instead of having her Hoagie's girlfriend. hmm *smile* yeah, but i've been learned that since I was in kindergarden... the Lizzie being Hoagie's girlfriend was a 'just imagine that...' hmmm how can I explain it? hmmm *thinks* I don't like to read fanficts...I don't like to read fanficts in English...I don't like to read fanficts in English that are like eighvbtah cauzhillion pages long XD nice to see you here abby  I though you're sleeping |
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Post by cRaZyAsiAnGirL on Sept 2, 2006 4:19:01 GMT
hmmm how can I explain it? hmmm *thinks* I don't like to read fanficts...I don't like to read fanficts in English...I don't like to read fanficts in English that are like eighvbtah cauzhillion pages long XD Okay, but there are really a lot of 1/5 fics... Just saying. |
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Post by abby5 on Sept 2, 2006 4:20:30 GMT
jejeje... someone woke me up, but I am very sleepy
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Post by digigirl02 on Sept 2, 2006 4:21:02 GMT
That's true, but can we get back to the topic please?(this is a 1/lizzie vrs. 1/5,thread not a 1/5 vrs. 2/5 one)
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Post by Violette on Sept 2, 2006 4:24:57 GMT
hmmm how can I explain it? hmmm *thinks* I don't like to read fanficts...I don't like to read fanficts in English...I don't like to read fanficts in English that are like eighvbtah cauzhillion pages long XD Okay, but there are really a lot of 1/5 fics... Just saying. hehe, yes, of course, and how many fanficts did you find about 1/Lizzie? *yawn* oh man, I'm so sleepy..too XD |
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Post by cRaZyAsiAnGirL on Sept 2, 2006 4:33:08 GMT
hehe, yes, of course, and how many fanficts did you find about 1/Lizzie? Let's see... Ones that star Nigel and Lizzie comes up with 4 results... (But the last one was "Coodnam: Kidz NEXT Doer!" and I don't remember that starring Nigel and Lizzie.) And looking up "1Lizzie" in the search engine comes up with 5 more results... Basically, that means there aren't much... I'm tired... Why am I still on? It's 12:33 in the morning! |
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Post by Violette on Sept 2, 2006 4:41:32 GMT
yeah, I think so, 'cause 1 and Lizzie are already a couple, nothing much to write about it
11:41 PM, I woke up at 5:00 AM, I went to a friend's house, and gosh, I'm so tired
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Post by Nella (Numbuh 310) on Sept 2, 2006 4:48:22 GMT
No matter how true that may or may not be, in short, the 1/5 supporters' "trust arguement" can never be used to show that Nigel and Lizzie are not a viable couple because of their lack of trust, because it is inherrently flawed. *applauds* yeah, I think so, 'cause 1 and Lizzie are already a couple, nothing much to write about it Therefore, all those 3/4 writers should shut the hell up 'cause their ship is practically canon, right? however, I saw your post before you deleted it Nella, yes, I hate my english level, the last year, I got interested for the English, and thanks to this forum, I have the level I have now, that means, nothing XD Ah, no offense meant by that. I was attempting to respond, but, after posting, I realized that I didn't quite understand your point. The fault is partially mine. I certainly wasn't getting after your language skills. I just decided that my post didn't properly respond to yours. @this debate Okay, I, too, am washing my hands of this. This is a big fat steaming pile of hipocrisy on several levels. (And, on a related issue: why do 1/5 shippers, who go so hard on Lizzie for "being mean" to Nigel...ship 2/86?) I don't have the patience to read this anymore. I'll just keep repeating myself over and over. As far as I'm concerned, you're missing our point, as brilliantly written out by Regan. Deliberately or otherwise. 1/Lizze foreverz, and see you on another thread. XP |
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I though you're sleeping
